Help with Miniter research

[jross]

Hello,
I am new to this forum. I am hoping someone can help me with my research into my paternal family tree, the Miniters from County Clare. I realize that “Miniter” is a rare name so I am probably related somehow to all Miniters in Clare! But I would like to know which branch of Miniters I am descended from.
Here is what I know: my great-grandfather was Edward Miniter. He was born in April 1857 in Feakle, and died August 7, 1920 in Gravenhurst, Ontario, Canada. His parents were Patrick Miniter, born about 1837 in Clare, and Mary McNamara. They married February 19, 1857 in Caher Feakle. By 1871, Patrick was living in Batley, Yorkshire (without Edward). Patrick was listed as a lodger and a widower. I have not been able to find a death record for Mary. Patrick died in March 1902 and is buried in Batley cemetery.
Meanwhile, in April 1879 Edward enlisted with the Royal Munster Fusiliers in Ennis. He remained with them until 1889, when he married Bridget Fitzgerald and immigrated to Canada.
I have not been able to discover: who Patrick’s parents were, or what happened to Edward’s mother, or whether Edward has any siblings. Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated!

[kbarlow]

You are lucky to have an unusual name in Clare. If you check Sheila's parish records transcriptions for Feakle @ the library site, you will find just 3 baptisms in the period you are searching. One of them for an Edmund Miniter to a Patrick & Mary Mcnamara in 1847 - it is possible this child died and another is baptised in 1857, so it is worth searching the NLI site in the original records for this RC parish (or adjoining parishes). (Keep in mind agricultural workers and most Irish after Cromwell's invasion were not given any education, so they guess at ages). The Tithe Applotment books have an Edd/Ed & a John Miniter @ Curacloonbutlen townland & a John Miniter @ Knockbeha townland (1827). Griffiths Valuations (AskAboutIreland site) has a Catherine & a John Miniter separately leasing houses and land from James Butler in townland of Cooracloon More (1850s). You can check this data and see what related family names (eg McNamara) are nearby and keep in mind Irish naming conventions of the period, which often assist building possible relationships (eg 1st son named after the father's father).

The Irish civil records did not start until 1864, but checking the death registrations for Miniter in period 1864-1890 found 18, all in Clare, including an Edmund in 1890 age 94. Using maps of Clare and death records you may be able to construct relationships (noting who death informants are is crucial). There are also a few Miniters in Cooracloonmore in the 1901 census (NAI site).

good luck - the hunt is fun.

[smcarberry]

With a good nudge from Kerry Barlow to hit the parish records and this weekend's free access to Ancestry.com's and MyHeritage's UK records (through May 8th), I am supposing you will be busy. However, the following may assist in finding the earlier generation of your extended family, who likewise found careers in the military and struck off to new countries:

3 Sep 1853; 17 Sep 1853 Boston Pilot
OF PATRICK MINITER, PATRICK CAIN, MARGT. McNamara. Mary Cain, Anne O’Brien, & Mary Hassit, natives of Cooroclune, parish Feakle. Any information will he thankfully received bv Edward Miniter, Comp. D. 8th Infantry, U. S. A, Fort McKavatt, San Saba River, Texas.

8 Apr 1854; 15 Apr 1854; 22 Apr 1854 Boston Pilot
OF PATK, JAS, MARY A BRIDGET MINITER; Patrick, Marv. and Catherine Cain; as also, Nancy O’Brien and Margaret Mc [sic, likely McNamara], Mary and Ellen Basit [sic, Hasset], natives of Corroclune, Butler, parish Feaele, co Clare. Information will be received by Edward Miniter, Co. D, 8th Infantry, Ringgold Barracks, Rio Grande City, Texas, or elsewhere.

Information Wanted
15 Oct 1853 Boston Pilot
IF Mrs. MARGARET FITZGERALD, of Freeport, A Stephenson Cos., Illinois, will send her directions to her mother, Mrs. Minitor, at 89 Centre st. New York, she will save her much anxiety, as she has written several times and received no answer

[Jimbo]

On Friday, Robert George Greene, Esq, held an inquest upon the body of a man named Darby Minogue, in the parish of Feacle, who came by his death under the following circumstances.—A few days since a dispute arose between two families about the possession of some land, and either party having collected their respective friends and followers, a general engagement ensued, when black-eyes and cut heads were as numerous as blackberries in October. The deceased and his son quietly going to the smithy [blacksmith] were beaten by one of the contending parties, from the effects of which he died in a few hours. A verdict was returned implicating several of the men concerned, and three of them have been committed to jail under the warrant of the Coroner.

Clare Journal, and Ennis Advertiser, Monday, 23 April 1838

CLARE.

THURSDAY.—Patrick McNamara, John Gleeson, Michael Cuniffe, Michael Connors, John Sullivan, Mary McNamara, James Miniter, Michael McNamara, James McNamara, Daniel Hassett, Michael Tuohy, Edmond Miniter, sen., Ed. Miniter, jun., James Quinn, Edmond Burke, Patt Brady, John Rogers, and James Tuohy, were indicted for the murder of Jeremiah Minogue, at Cahermurphy, parish of Feakle, on the 18th of April last.

Several witnesses were examined for the crown on behalf of the prosecution, among whom were the widow of the deceased, his son, daughter, and others, all of whom denied having any knowledge whatever of the prisoners’ being concerned in the murder. The crown counsel were obliged to give up the prosecution for want of evidence.

Baron Richards, after expressing surprise that even among the immediate relatives of the deceased witnesses could not be found to bring the perpetrators of the deed to justice, remarked that while the daughter of the deceased had that day positively sworn that she did not see any of the prisoners strike her father, and that she did not see him struck at all, she had in her information deposed to having seen a boy named Quinn strike her father with a stone, and leap on his body, and she also swore that she saw some of the other prisoners on that occasion.

The prisoners were then discharged.

In the next case 31 persons were indicted for a riot and assault arising out of the former case, four of whom were found guilty—namely, James Hickey, Michael Sullivan, David and Martin Williams.

FRIDAY.—Two sisters (Rowan and Guthrie) were tried for murdering their husbands, by administering poison. They were acquitted at a late hour of the night. . .

The Pilot, Wednesday, 6 March 1839

[jross]

Hi Jimbo,
Thank you very much for posting this VERY interesting find! It sounds like my Miniter ancestors were a combative bunch! I still check this forum regularly, as there are still many unknowns in my family tree. Thanks again!
Janice

[matthewmacnamara]

There was a pub in Killadysart with the name Miniter over the door. I don't know if is still there.

[Jimbo]

CLARE ASSIZES.
THURSDAY—THIRD DAY.

Daniel Hassett and 19 others were indicted for the manslaughter of Jeremiah Minogue at Cahirmurphy, on the 18th of April last [1838].

Martin Williams examined by Mr. Plunket—I knew Darby Minogue; he is dead; I know the lands of Flagmount; I know Michael Sullivan, he had part of them [the lands at Flagmount]; I made an agreement with him for part of those lands and got possession; I paid part of the price of the land; I passed two I O U’s and he decreed me for one of them; I had 5 for 6 men at work on Monday, but on Tuesday I had about 30 men digging stubble; about twelve o’clock Daniel Hassett and his party came with ploughs and cars; I hindered them from coming on the lands, and sent them away; on Wednesday I had about fifty men; Hassett had about a hundred; they had nothing but sticks and stones; when we found we were not able to keep the land we ran away; Hassett kept the ground for some time, but we collected in the evening, to about one hundred in number, and we took it again; we had a fight; we took the land in spite of them; there was not much fighting; it was not on the lands Minogue was killed, but at Cahirmurphy; I did not see Minogue struck, but I saw him in the evening; he was well beaten; when we took possession, after a battle, we had no more fighting; I know nothing of the killing of Minogue.

Cross-examined by Mr. Freeman—I know John Sullivan; Hassett said he bought the ground from Sullivan; it was from Michael Sullivan I bought it; Michael was one of the party with me; I gave the 30 men I had on Tuesday a glass of whiskey; I paid only a few of them; Minogue was struck between the time we went away in the morning and came in the evening; I struck a blow that day; it was with my fist, and there was not a stone in it; I got the clip on my forehead from a blow with a stone; I was in a hundred fights.

Michael Minogue examined by Mr. Bennett—Deceased was my father; he died on the 18th of April, on a Wednesday; we were going home to dinner, and the road was crowded with people; I was looking for a few kippings [kippen; a small stick] to boil the potatoes, when I saw a few strangers outside the door; the first person I knew was the man in whose house we lived; his name was Pat Reardon; he was running away and a party hunting him; when they came up they struck me and beat me, and only for Michael Tuohy [one of the defendants] I would have been killed; he saved my life, and got me my liberty, when I ran into the house, I was knocked down and my father came out, when he was struck and beaten; I did not see any person strike him; I saw him afterwards in the house, and the last words he said to me were, that only for James Miniter and Michael Tuohy [both defendants] his brains would have been dashed out on the spot; two hours before this he saw some of the prisoners at the forge; the day was cold, and they went in to warm themselves; there was a good many there; Flagmount is a but a short distance from the forge; deceased was [black] smith.

Catherine Minogue examined by Mr. M’Dermott [relationship not reported but article in prior posting stated that Michael Minogue’s widow testified]—She described the father and son coming home, and a fight having taken place at the house, and that there was a great pelting of stones; when she went out and she saw James Minitter holding him up by the collar and protecting him; he got a good many blows, and her arm got some blows; did not see any of the prisoners there, but thinks Daniel Hassett was there.

Bridget Minogue, daughter of deceased, did not know any of the persons who were around her father; she saw them but did not know them.

Pat Rierdon, did not know any of the persons who struck deceased; was there when he was struck.

Denis McMahon, was employed by Williams to dig on the day in question; saw Hassett that day, to the best of my belief he had a stone in his hand; saw no one have a stone besides; Ned Minitter had a stick; saw some of the prisoners there, but they were doing nothing; I saw the attack on the house it was made by Hassett’s party; I do not know who struck deceased.

To the Court—It was at the time of the charge on the house that Minogue was struck.

To Mr. Bennett—I was of William’s party, and was hunted into the house; I did not look out of the house because I was afraid.

Mr. Bennett told his Lordship there was no use in going on with this case, when the jury acquitted the prisoners.

His Lordship, then addressed them, and stated the narrow escape they had of being found guilty. A lamentable occurrence had take place, in which an unfortunate man loses his life—it take place in the middle of the day, and yet no one can be had to prove against those who committed that act—what was still more lamentable was the fact that the depositions, which he held in his hand, and which he did not deem it right to read until the prisoners were acquitted, were made by Bridget Minogue, a young girl about 16 or 17 years of age. His Lordship read part of the depositions, in which she swore to some of the prisoners as having beaten her father; he read so much for them after hearing the evidence they did a few minutes ago.

Martin Williams, and 30 more men, were put in the bar for riotously assembling at Flagmount, on the 18th of April, and assaulting Bridget Hassett.

The Court—Another Feacle [blurry, possibly “riot”]; surely Feacle is a great credit to the county.

The Rev. Mr M’Inerheny, stated there was not a magistrate within 15 miles of the centre of the parish. He had represented it to the government some time ago. It was a hard case.

The Court—Indeed, it is.

This case was a cross care, connected with the last one. The principal in this was the chief witness, (it will be seen,) in the last, and he and three others were convicted of a common assault, in the riot of the day.

His Lordship said there was a good many mitigatory features in their case which he would attend to. He considered they had been provoked, and that the Hassett party who were some time before acquitted, had been the principal transgressors.—But he wished to impress it on the minds of the people, that however provoked, they should not take the law into their own hands, and that the law was sufficient to redress all their grievances.

Four of them were convicted and sentenced to one week’s imprisonment.

Bernard Kiely, was found guilty of sheep-stealing . . .

Clare Journal and Ennis Advertiser, Monday, 4 March 1839

The Pilot new article of my prior posting listed 18 individuals (17 men and 1 woman) who were being prosecuted for the murder of Jeremiah Minogue. The Clare Journal stated that there were 20 individuals (Daniel Hassett and 19 others) and the charge was manslaughter.

The Clare Journal article provided detailed testimony of the prosecution witnesses, where The Pilot only stated “several witnesses were examined on behalf of the prosecution, among whom were the widow of the deceased, his son, daughter, and others”. The witnesses were a great disappointment to the Crown prosecution as they denied any knowledge of seeing who attacked Jeremiah Minogue, unlike their prior depositions. Furthermore, the son stated that two of the men being prosecuted, James Miniter and Michael Tuohy, had come to the defense of their father. His widow also gave positive evidence absolving James Miniter.

The detailed witness testimony of the Clare Journal provided many clues as to where the fighting took place which led to the death of Jeremiah Minogue and supported the research done by Kerry Barlow in finding Miniters in the Tithe Applotment and Griffith Valuation land records.

Janice, a few things need to be clarified from Kerry’s posting (excerpt below) which I suspect that you may have caught on your own:

If you check Sheila's parish records transcriptions for Feakle @ the library site, you will find just 3 baptisms in the period you are searching. One of them for an Edmund Miniter to a Patrick & Mary Mcnamara in 1847 - it is possible this child died and another is baptised in 1857, so it is worth searching the NLI site in the original records for this RC parish (or adjoining parishes).

The parish baptism records to be checked are not for Feakle Parish (records start in 1860), but for Caher Feakle Parish (records start in 1842), which indeed has three Miniter baptism records. However, Patrick Miniter and Mary McNamara baptized their son, and your great grandfather, Edmund Miniter on 10 December 1857, sponsors Thady Mack and Margaret Mack (Caher Feakle baptism, 1842-1861).

Ed Miniter and Bid McMahon of Knockbeha baptized a daughter, Norry, on 12 June 1847; so easy to mix up the two entries.

Janice, your first posting stated that your great grandfather “was born in April 1857 in Feakle” without giving any supporting evidence. Edward Miniter’s enlistment record stated that he joined the 70th Brigade on 26th April 1879 at the age of 20 years and ___ months (per Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner Soldier Service Records, 1760-1920, available at fold3 website). I thought this might be your support as same month, but I see now that it is two years off. As Kerry mentioned, it was not uncommon at this time for the Irish to only have a vague idea of when they were born. Your great great grandparents married in Caher Feakle on 19 February 1857, and your great grandfather was baptized on 10 December 1857 and likely born just a few days prior to his baptism. Edward Miniter would have been 21 years and 4 months when he enlisted with the 70th Brigade.

You mentioned that you have not found any death record for Mary McNamara Miniter, and that her husband was reported as a widower in the 1871 census of Batley in Yorkshire. The military records for Edward Miniter of the 70th Brigade provide an important clue to her later whereabouts. On the last page of the package is a Military Service Record for when Edward had completed his service in 1889 and his “Next of Kin” were reported “Father: Patrick, Staincliffe, Yorkshire” (located close to Batley), but written above and then scribbled out is “Mother: Mary, California”. While Edward Miniter reported that he was a widower in the 1871 census, this may not have been true.

Other children? There are no other children for Patrick Miniter and Mary McNamara in the Caher Feakle baptism register. However, they could have had a second child baptized in Feakle parish prior to the 1860 start of its baptism register since Patrick and Mary Miniter may have lived in Feakle Catholic parish. Their marriage was located in Caher Feakle, traditionally the home of the bride’s parents. It is also possible that Mary McNamara had only her first child at her home parish (to be with her mother) and a second child was born in Feakle Catholic parish. Or maybe the couple left for California for a time period? Or maybe Mary left on her own for California?

It is not really clear what specific townland that Patrick Miniter and Mary McNamara were living based upon their marriage entry and baptism of their first child. The detailed testimony of the trial of the 17 men and one woman accused in the manslaughter of Jeremiah Minogue, including three named Miniter, provided very important clues. In particular, where each side, divided into a Williams faction and a Hassett faction, were living at the 1838 Feakle faction fight. I was very surprised upon reading that Clare Journal news article that it was such a large fight, increasing on the second day to 100 individuals on both sides. However, this might have been an exaggeration by Martin Williams who also testified “I was in a hundred fights”.

The Martin Williams, who was the first to testify at the trial, was reported in the Tithe Applotments in 1827 for Feakle civil parish as leasing in Knockbeha townland with “Cahermurphy” written in the Notes (per Clare Library index).

https://clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/g ... le_tab.htm

The actual record (possibly a different time period?) at the National Archives for “Martn” Williams and Thomas Williams shows them sharing six acres in Knockbeha townland (with no mention of Caher Murphy).

https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalar ... _00029.pdf

The Williams surname was not reported at Griffith Valuation in Feakle parish. A Patrick Williams, pensioner, age 68, married, died in Cahermurphy on 29 July 1892; informant his son, Michael Williams (Scarriff registration). In the 1901 census, Michael Williams (age 60, widower) was living with two children and three grandchildren (reported as nephews and niece) in Cahermurphy townland House #1.

Caher Murphy is located just to the north of Flagmount townland, which from the testimony of Martin Williams was the land being fought over. Martin Williams purchased from Michael Sullivan; Daniel Hassett purchased from John Sullivan. Daniel Sullivan and John Sullivan, with four others, leased land in Knockbeha townland in the 1827 Tithe Applotments for Feakle civil parish, with the Note stating “Upper Flagmount” (per Clare Library index). Since six men shared their lands at Flagmount, I reckon the title to the land, or the rights to lease the land, may have not been clear which led to the fighting in 1838.

https://clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/g ... le_tab.htm

The deceased Jeremiah (Darby) Minogue who was killed at Caher Murphy was a blacksmith. According to the testimony of his son, Michael Minogue, their house was owned by Pat Reardon. He must be the Patt Reordan in the 1827 Tithe Applotments for Feakle civil parish in Knockbeha townland, sharing with Michael Reordan, with Notes stating “Cahermurphy” (per Clare Library index).

The opposing faction appears to have been led by Daniel Hassett. In the 1827 Tithe Applotments for Feakle Parish, a Jeremiah Hassett was a lessor in Curracloon Butler townland. In the Caher Feakle baptism register (1842-1861), Daniel Hassett and Mary McNamara of Knockbeha townland had their child Daniel baptized in March 1842. At 1855 Griffith Valuation for Knockbeha townland there is a Denis Hassett (Plot 14; 19+ acres) as well as Patrick Hassett (Plot 11; 11+ acres) and James Hassett (Plot 18; 11+ acres), each leasing a house and land. At GV for Curracloon More, there is a James Hassett (Plot 1c) leasing a house and shared land with 12 others.

James Miniter, the defendant who the Minogue family testified had defended Jeremiah Minogue, was likely one of two individuals:

A) In the Caher Feakle baptism register (1842-1861), a James Miniter and Mary Molony of Knock (likely Knockbeha) had a son Patt baptized on 20 April 1847.

B) In the 1901 census, a James Miniter (age 80, bachelor) was living in Curracloon More in House 9 with his nephews (John Miniter, age 35; James Miniter, age 28) and niece (Kate Miniter, age 25). When the bachelor James Miniter of Curracloon died on 27 January 1902, his reported age was 85 years by his niece, Kate Miniter (Scarriff registration), a few years older than the 1901 census indicated. In 1838, the year of the large Feakle faction fight, James Miniter of Curracloon would have been about 22 years old.

James Miniter, the 80-year old bachelor in 1901, must have been the brother of John Miniter (≈1815-1895) who was married to Margaret Connors (≈1838-1890) of Curracloon More with children born in Feakle Catholic parish from 1863 and 1877. Per 1855 Griffith Valuation for Corracloon More townland, a John Miniter leased a house in Plot 1i and shared land with 12 others (including James Hassett noted above). John Miniter (≈1815-1895) named his eldest son “John”, and thus was likely the son of “John Miniter, Jr.” listed in the 1827 Tithe Applotments living in Curracloon More (see Clare Library index).

At Griffith Valuation in Plot 1j in Curracloon More was a Catherine Miniter, who must have been the widow Catherine Miniter of Curracloon who died on 27 December 1876 at the age of 70 years; the informant was Honoria Miniter (Scarriff registration). Catherine had likely been married to one of the three Miniter men listed in Curracloon Butler in the 1827 Tithe Applotments (Edward or John Ed, less likely John Jr).

“Edmund Miniter, sen, Ed. Miniter, jun.” were also among the 18 defendants listed in article in The Pilot of 6 March 1839. The “sen” and “jun” was to distinguish between two men of the same name, and likely indicated their ages, and not a father and son relationship. They must be the Edmund Miniter and John Ed Miniter in the 1827 Tithe Applotments living in Curracloon Butler. Neither are reported at Griffith Valuation.

Janice, your great grandfather Edward Miniter, the first born son of Patrick Miniter and Mary McNamara, was likely named after his paternal grandfather, I reckon one of the two Edward Miniters who were defendants at the 1839 trial. Difficult to say if your great great great grandfather was “Edmund Miniter, sen” or “Ed Miniter, jun”. And odds are 50 / 50 that he was the man at the faction fight who Denis McMahon testified as “Ned Miniter had a stick”.

Among the eighteen defendants at the 1839 trial for the manslaughter of Jeremiah Minogue were three McNamara’s: Mary, Michael and James. Several of the defendants in the Williams faction appear to have had a connection to Curracloon townland, perhaps also the McNamara’s? Back in 2023 on this forum, there was a posting “Michael McNamara, Curracloon, Co. Clare”

viewtopic.php?t=7360

But as I recall, this McNamara family only lived in Curracloon for a few decades and their origins went back to Tingaree located in Fossa More townland in Tomgraney Catholic parish. Although in reading this posting there was an interesting Minogue connection:

"John Mack", of Tingaree, married Winifred Minogue (≈1812 - 1900), of Cappabane, on 15 February 1873 by the parish priest M.J. Kenny; sponsors Thomas Griffey and Mary Minogue (per Scariff marriage register). Per the civil marriage record, "John Mack" was a widow, from "Fossabeg", the son of "John Mack" (and not Daniel McNamara?). "Winifred Minogue", of Cappabane, spinster, was the daughter of Jeremiah Minogue.

John McNamara, of Tingaree, married, age 74, farmer, died on 2 November 1882; informant Daniel McNamara of Tingaree (Scariff registration). Winifred McNamara, of Fossamore, farmer's widow, age 88, died on 13 January 1901; informant step-son Daniel McNamara of Fossamore (Scariff registration).

Winifred Minogue was not a young woman when she married in 1873; she was born about 1812 according to her 1901 civil death record. It is possible that Winifred was the daughter of the Jeremiah Minogue of Caher Murphy who was killed on 18 April 1838, the day of a large Feakle faction fight over a farm in Flagmount. Was Winifred a sister of the Michael Minogue and Bridget Minogue who testified at the 1839 trial?

Janice, I thought it was very interesting that your great great grandmother, Mary McNamara Miniter, was or perhaps had been living in California. The John McNamara who was the witness in February 1857 at the marriage of Patrick Miniter and Mary McNamara, as well as the baptism sponsors, Thady McNamara and Margaret McNamara, at the baptism of their son in December 1857, are very important clues to her identity.