O'Loughlin Kilmihil/Donogan

[Sduddy]

Yes Miriam, of course! I completely forgot that Mary Keating died in Limerick. Plus since I did that posting, I found other reasons to show that Michael and Mary in Washaba are not your Michael and Mary .

The Mary O’Loughlin, who died in Washaba in1895, was indeed Mary Keating. I found a record of the death of Mary O. Laughlin on familysearch.org that gives her parents names as J. Kating and M. Kating. But the 1875 census raises some problems: there’s an Annie aged 24 born in New York, which means she was born abt. 1851, and a James aged 20 born in New York, which means he was born abt. 1855. So how can Ellen and John be born in Kilmihil in 1853 and 1854, and how can Biddy be born in Doonogan in 1856?

Just in case there are other people with ancestors called Michael O'Loughlin and Mary Keating, I found this piece, which is interesting (though not relevant to Miriam's forebears): https://archive.org/stream/historyofwab ... t_djvu.txt
(do a wordsearch for “O’Laughlin”).

Sheila

[miriam]

Great research tho Sheila

[Sduddy]

Well, after pulling myself up out of that pitfall yesterday, I almost went into another this morning. I’d been looking at the O’Loughlins in Doonogan, and comparing the O’Loughlin families in the Kilmurry Ibrickan baptisms with the O’Loughlin households in the 1901 census. That census shows the family of John O’Loughlin and Bridget [White] in Doonogan and the family of [Patrick O’Loughlin and] Honoriah [Casey] in Moyglass Beg, a townland very close to Doonogan. Then I looked at the 1911 census and saw that John and Bridget in Doonogan had 11 children born to them of whom 10 were alive. I decided that some of these children must have gone to America and that maybe they went to cousins there. So I looked again at familysearch, this time entering John O’Loughlin and Bridget White as parents, and found three O’Loughlins in Worcester, Mass.. One of these was Michael, born 1877 in Ireland, died 1906 in Worcester. But then, when I looked at the list of emigrants from Kilmurry Ibrickan (who went through Ellis Island)*, I saw Michael O’Loughlin, Doonogan, son of John O’Loughlin, emigrating in May 1911, aged 24, and going to sister Maria O’Loughlin, 1605 Woodland Avenue, Desmoines, Iowa. The co-incidences are just amazing. It’s so good that Ellen’s obituary mentions that her husband came from Doonogan/ Kilmihil – otherwise I would now be wondering if Michael in Kilmihil was the same as Michael in Doonogan.
* see: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... grants.htm

1n 1911, John and Bridget have just two sons living at home in Doonogan: Pat aged 41 and Peter aged 33. Peter went to America – the index to the deaths which were reported in the Clare Champion shows that his death in USA was reported on 29th Jan. 1966: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... piono7.htm
Pat remained in Doonogan and was married in 1914 to to Margaret Greene, in St. Mary’s church, Mullagh; witnesses: Andrew Whyte, Katie Greene.

In the meantime, in nearby Moyglass Beg, the 1911 census shows four of the children of Patrick O’Loughlin and Honora Casey still living at home (Patrick had died in 1894, aged 82; Honora had died in 1907, aged 83). The youngest of these four, John, was married in 1914 to Anne Killeen in Mullagh church; witnesses: Martin McDonnell, Mary Clancy.

I feel sure that the O’Loughlins in Doonogan were related to the O’Loughlins in Moyglassbeg. But Pat in Moyglassbeg is about 20 years older than John in Doonogan – so they were almost a generation apart. Your Michael O’Loughlin might have been a brother of John, and a nephew of Patt – but I don't think we will ever know the exact relationship.

Sheila

[miriam]

Hi Sheila,

That is so much good information.

It's difficult to know how close these places are to each other without having local knowledge so it's fantastic that you can provide that.

The obituary was amazing to find, it lists those that attended the funeral but unfortunately all of those listed are family I already know about. But it did give me the clue to where the family came from so I am so grateful to you for all the work you have done on this.

I can only hope that someone eventually somebody will come along with a bit more information about the relationships between these families. However it's a lot more than I had when I posed the original question.

In the meantime I just might try to weave the John and Patrick families into my family tree and see what comes from that in regard to making contact with others who may be of the same family.

Many Thanks once again

Miriam

[miriam]

Hi again Sheila,

I have been doing a bit of searching and pondering on the O'Loughlins, I cannot see the records of the deaths of Patrick and Hanora. I have searched IrishGenealogy and RootsIreland. Could you please tell me where you came across them?

I checked the census records also and I see that Hanora is aged 68 in 1901 and John (Doonogan) is also 68. Now I know that ages could vary greatly but I also know that the age at death was usually the informants guess. So I'm thinking that it is possible that Patrick (Moyglassbeg) could have been younger than 84 when he died. I have estimated Michael O'Loughlin's date of birth as 1830 as his wife appears to have been born around 1830 according to her obituary. That would have made him about 71 if he was around for the 1901 census. That is pretty close to the age of John and Hanora and could also be close to Patrick's age if Patrick was much the same age as his wife. I think it is very possible that John, Patrick and Michael were all brothers. What do you think?

Also I wonder if you would advise me on something else regarding that area.

Ellen O'Loughlin married Thady Glynn. He apparently always claimed he came from the foot of Mount Callan. Would the townland of Doonogan qualify for that? I had previously thought through various research that he came from Gortbrack, but while I was browsing your library site I clicked in to the Ejectment books of County Clare and I came across a record of a John Glynn who lived in Doonogan and now I am rethinking all of that.

I also want to say that your Library site is by far the best I have come across, there is so much information on it, it is fantastic.

Miriam

[Sduddy]

Hi Miriam

Yes, the clarelibrary.ie site is wonderful. One of the great features is the GenMap at the top of the genealogy and family history page. Click on that, and go to the side panel and click on People. Then enter Keating and you will see the dispersal throughout the county of the Keating name, from Tithes to the 1901 census. You will see that the Keatings are concentrated in the Loop Head peninsula.

I found the death of Patrick by entering Patrick OLoughlin (note that OLoughlin is all one word). I entered Kilrush. And I entered the date range as 1869 – 1901 (the last child was born in 1869). There’s just one result: Patt OLoughlin who died in 1894. For Honora the date range I entered was narrower: 1901 – 1911. Again OLoughlin is all one word. There’s just one result.
Note: There are some Kilrush records where O’Loughlin is spelled “OLoghlen”. Also, after 1911, O’Loughlin is often “O’Loughlin”.

Yes, it’s hard to say whether Patrick in Moyglass Beg is a brother of John, or not. The ages given are not very reliable. I find myself trusting the age given at death, rather than the age given in the census, but I can’t explain exactly why I do that! Also, in deciding whether people are siblings, we need to remember that women had 20 years of childbearing. So the difference between the eldest brother and the youngest could be as much as 20 years, and uncles could be younger than their nephews.

I think the record I found of the death of Mary OLoughlin in 1886 is interesting: 5th Oct. 1886: Death of Mary O’Loughlin, aged 90, Doonogan, widow of Martin O’Loughlin, Farmer; informant: John O’Loughlin, Doonogan. I mentioned this record in my first reply but omitted to say that it describes John (who reported the death) as Mary’s son. I feel certain that this John is John the husband of Bridget White. So, if your Michael is a brother of John, as he well may be, then he, also, is a son of Martin.

Now, I expected to find Martin in Grifftih’s Valuation, but he is not there. And there is no O’Loughlin in Doonogan – there are three in Moyglass Beg (including Patrick – who might be Parick who married Honora Casey), and one in Finnor More. Miriam, “If ever you go to Dublin town”, go to the Valuation Office in Lower Abbey Street. That is where the Griffith’s Valuation books are held. Not alone do they show Griffith’s Primary Valuation (in beautiful handwriting), but they show the revisions to that valuation – in other words, the names of the people who took over each tenancy as it fell vacant. I feel sure that Martin will feature in those revisions. Also they will show just when the O’Loughlins moved into the farm in Doonogan. You don’t need a ticket, and all you need to know is the name of the townland and the parish. If ever you find time to do that, make some more time to look at Cahermurphy in the parish of Kilmihil. I expect you will see Michael O’Loughlin there, in Lot 68 a (he is a sub-tenant of George Crowly who is leasing Lot 68 jointly with two others from the landlord, William Browne Burke), and hopefully you will also see when Michael relinquished his tenancy.

As you probably have noticed, not all of the death records and marriage records are viewable online, as yet. We were promised that they would become viewable early in 2019, but it’s now no longer early in 2019. So I can see that there’s a record of the death of a Martin OLoughlin in 1868, but there’s no image. And there are several other records for OLoughlins that are not viewable either. Interestingly (or sadly?), there is no record of the death of Michael OLoughlin – at least not in the Kilrush Union. It may be that Michael had died by the time registration of births, deaths and marriages became law (1864), but it might also be that the family moved to another district. I thought the most likely place would be Ennis (given the O’Loughlin sponsors at the baptisms of the Glynn children in Ennis) and I looked at the Ennis (Drumcliff) baptisms between 1856 and 1864, but saw no baptism of a child of Michael O’Loughlin and Mary Keating.

I am interested to hear that Thady Glynn came from the foot of Mount Callan. And I will see if I can find anything of interest for you.

Now, just one thing in my last posting that I need to amend: It’s about Michael O’Loughlin who emigrated from Doonogan in 1911 at age 24. I afterwards realized that he could not possibly be a son of John and Bridget in Doonogan – Bridget was aged 62 at the time of his birth. I found he belongs instead to another O’Loughlin family who lived in Knockanalban (in Kilmurry Ibrickan): John O’Loughlin and Bridget nee Lynch. According to the record of their marriage*, Bridget was from Doonogan, so it’s possible that Michael was staying with the Lynches in Doonogan before going away. All of which means that the O’Loughlins I found in Worcester, Massachusetts, are reinstated as (most likely) the children of John O’Loughlin and Bridget White.
*I hoped that John might be a son of your Michael, but that marriage record shows that John OLoghlen (note spelling) from Knockanalban was the son of a John O’Loughlin.

Sheila

[miriam]

Hi Sheila,

Yes I found the death records, I don't know how I couldn't find them yesterday. I see Honora has aged 15 years between the census and her death 6 years later. People really didn't know what age they were most of the time I think.

Re: Thady Glynn, somewhere I found a census of Co. Clare from, I think, the 1820s that showed 3 Glynn families living in Gortbrack. One of these was Timothy Glynn and Bridget O'Loghlen who I believe were the parents of Thady. But do you think I can find that record now...of course not. I do have it printed off somewhere but it is not making itself apparent to me right now.

That is very interesting information about Martin O'Loughlin. The name does carry down through the family and Martin is not a terribly common name for the time. Thady and Ellen (O'Loughlin) called one of their sons Martin, so it could be very relevant. They also had a John and a Patrick. Incidentally John Glynn's son, Sean, was a member of the IRA and he comitted suicide in jail in 1936 under controversial circumstances and is a celebrated patriot.

Yes, Michael O'Loughlin's death is a bit of a mystery. I did find a death on Roots Ireland which could be him.

Details: Ennis. Michael O'Loughlin. 16 Jan 1892. Workhouse and Muckinish. Age: 50. Blacksmith.

Now the age is quite a bit off, he would have been at least 60 but putting that aside, it is a possibility.
I don't know why this death is not on Irish Genealogy, at least if it was we could check it against the Roots Ireland record because the age issue could simply be a transcription error.
I have found Muckinish is to the east of Ennis, it seems a bit away from Doonogan and Kilmihil so I'm not too sure about it either.

I had hoped his profession as a blacksmith would be a big clue, I thought this was a craft that would have carried on through the family but I have not found any other family members or even tentative family members who were blacksmiths.

I will also pencil in a visit to Dublin to see those Griffiths revisions. I will arm myself with many other queries and hopefully kill a few birds with one stone.

Thanks again Sheila

Miriam

[murf]

Hi Miriam & Sheila

Several posts ago Sheila asked

Have you found any records for Bridget O’Loughlin, who was born to Michael O'Loughlin and Mary Keating in Doonogan in 1856?

Well I just stumbled across this in Trove:

PERSONAL.
O'LOUGHLIN. — Wanted information of
Bridget O'Loughlin, left Kilmailey, near
Ennis, County Clare, Ireland, for Bris-
bane, about 27 years ago. Any informa-
tion will be thankfully received by her
sister, Mrs. Glynn, 5 Roxtown Terrace,
Limerick, Ireland. Queensland papers
please copy.
The Catholic Press Sydney, NSW, Thu 17 Jun 1909 Page 30

I tried to find a shipping record that matched, but the best I could do was a Bridget O'Loughlin that arrived in Sydney in 1879 on board the Pericles. Tho bear in mind that some migrants bound for Moreton Bay(Brisbane) landed first in Sydney then caught a coastal steamer to Brisbane.

murf

[miriam]

Hi Murf,

Wow, that's amazing, thank you so much. A definite lead at last. Hopefully I can find some trace of Bridget in Australia. I think it's likely she never made contact because I'm pretty sure we would have heard about her down through the family. My Ggrandmother was called Bridget Glynn, she was obviously called after her aunt who had gone to Australia.

I am blown away by the help I have gotten on this forum.

Murf, you join Sheila as a star of Clare Genealogy

Many Thanks
Miriam

[Sduddy]

Hi Murf

Now that’s what I call a discovery. Brilliant!

Hi Miriam

About Timothy Glynn, we know from the record of his marriage that his father was also Timothy and we also know that Timothy (junior) was born about 1845, and that he said he was raised at the foot of Mount Callan (also called Slieve Callan), which is in the parish of Inagh.
And that mention of Gortbrack is also very helpful. Gortbrack is in the parish of Kilfarboy (the town is Miltown Malbay), but it was decided, when the Ordnance Survey map of 1842 was being made, that it would not be one of the “official” townlands of Kilfarboy parish, so going to the information on Kilfarboy on clarelibrary (http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... farboy.htm) does not help me to locate where exactly Gortbrack is, but if Timothy was raised at the foot of Mount Callan, which is in the west of Inagh parish, then I reckon Gortbrack is situated at the east of Kilfarboy. People living in that area will know where Gortbrack is. But that information on Kilfarboy, as you will see, shows that, at the time of Tithes, there was a Tim Glynny living in Ballyvaskin, Kilfarboy. And it shows that, at the time of Griffith’s Valuation, while none of the leaseholders is named Timothy Glynn, there were several Glin/Glinn/Glynnys living in the parish of Kilfarboy. However, by 1901, the Glynns seem to have disappeared from Kilbarboy.

Anyway, I looked at the transcription of the Miltown Malbay baptisms: http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... f=1&t=6940 and found a couple of entries for children of Tim Glinny and Bridget O’Loughlin/Loghlen:
(1) 03.03.1838: Patt of Theady Glinny and Bridget O’Loughlin – no address (page 83 online – see the original at: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0788).
(2) 07.10.1840: Mary of Tim Glinny and Bridget O’Loghlen, Gortbrack (page 113 online).
(3) ??.08.1843: Michael of Tim Glinny and Bridget O’Loghlen, Leeds (page 153 online).
I don’t see a baptism for your Timothy, who was born about 1845, but not every baptism was recorded by the priest.

But I feel sure that you are on the right track with Gortbrack. You will remember that Bridget Glynn, daughter of Timothy Glynn and Ellen O’Loughlin, was baptised in Inagh-Kilnamona parish and that the address was Mountcallan. I wonder if Timothy was visiting some relatives, or neighbours at that time.

I'm hoping that the Bridget O’Loughlin, in the passenger list that Murf found, is your great grandaunt. If so, it’s interesting that she went from Kilmaley (parish).The GenMap shows some Keating families living in that parish. Could it be that Bridget had gone to live with her mother’s people?

I’m delighted to see that ad seeking information about Bridget O’Loughlin. Your great grandmother, Ellen, was trying to find her as late as 1909.

Sheila

[miriam]

Hi Sheila

Yes, what a great discovery by Murf. So pleased with that and it is gratifying to know her sister was still looking for her 27 years after she left. Such a pity, all the connections that have been lost over time.

Re: Gortbrack, my research tells me it is in the townland of Leeds if that helps narrow it down. It is encouraging to know that you agree with my conclusions so far. I had also decided on Kilfarboy parish so hopefully I'm on the right track. Although I know I probably won't get any farther back with the family considering the lack of records at least I may be able to work sideways and find out where the siblings went to .

Thanks also for the addition of Michael and Patt Glynn, I had found Mary but those two eluded me.

I actually visited Mount Callan a couple of years ago, a beautiful area.

Miriam

[Sduddy]

Hi Miriam

You mentioned an early 19th census a couple of posting up, and when I looked at the information for Kilfarboy just now (http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... farboy.htm), I saw that there’s an external to a Parish Census completed in 1839. At that time Tim and Biddy had just one child. I see a heading, “Lieds and Gortbrack”. So you are right – Gortbrack is in the townland of Leeds.

Sheila

[miriam]

That's the one Sheila, thanks for locating that. I am making the assumption for now, rightly or wrongly, that Michael and Tom Glenny are also brothers of Tim.

[Sduddy]

Hi Miriam

Somewhere above I said that the sponsors at the baptism of Ellen O’Loghlin, on 24 April 1853, were Anne(?) Murphy and John Murphy. But I've looked more closely now and see that the sponsors are Ellen Keating, Cahermurphy, and John Murphy. The "Caher" of Cahermurphy is not very clear and I thought it might be "Anne", and so I totally missed the real female sponsor at the beginning of the line. Anyway that baptism record means that Michael O’Loughlin in Cahermurphy in Griffith’s Valuation, is definitely your Michael. I think Ellen Keating (the sponsor) may be either a sister or a niece of Mary.

Miriam, you will remember that, in Griffith’s Valuation, Michael O’Loughlin is a sub-tenant of George Crowley who is leasing lot 68 jointly with two others. Well, I don’t know if these following Kilmihil baptism records show some connection between the Crowleys and the Keatings, or if they are of any significance at all:
(1) 28.07.1851: Michael Crowley of William Crowley and Bridget Keating; sponsors: John Keating, Jane Huolahan. (No address).
(2) 24.02.1853: William Crowley of William Crowley and Johanna Keating: sponsors: Michael Crowley, Mary Crowly. (No address).

Sheila

[miriam]

Hi Sheila,

Oh yes, I can see how you made that mistake about the name. Not to mind the fact that I have looked at that record myself a few times over the last couple of months and I never even noticed Ellen Keating. I think I would be happy to treat her as a sister of Mary's and see how that goes. It is so good to know for sure that it is Cahermurphy they came from and to be able to see the location on the map. You have done trojan work again. The possible Crowley connection is certainly something to bear in mind also.

I have spent most of today adding all these new people to my family tree and going a bit farther with some of them.

I have not been able to find anything on Bridget O'Loughlin in Australia. I found another record of emigration that I think may fit better. The Wistow Hall sailed to Brisbane from London in 1885. Bridget O'Loughlin was 22 and from Clare. She seems to have been travelling with Kate O'Brien from Clare. I have a DNA match who appears to match me through somebody from Clare and he has O'Brien in his family tree so this is something that piqued my interest.

I cannot find anything else on her. The Australian records are pretty dismal actually and we think we are badly off in Ireland.

Many thanks once again Sheila

Miriam