Clare Past Forum

Hello everyone,

Looking for some input regarding education and occupations in the mid to late 19th century.

Generally speaking, if generalities can be applied here anyway, was it fairly universal in Co. Clare for a person to attend and finish primary school? Either way, would a person that became a telegraphist by about 1880 have had to of finished primary school as a sort of prerequisite or qualification?

If that's too general of a question, here's the specifics:

An ancestor of mine, John Halpin, was born in Co. Clare between 1852 and 1854 (there are dozens of John Halpins born in Co. Clare). By Nov 1876, he married Annie Melville (of Co. Down) at the Roman Catholic Downpatrick church.

I do not know where in Co. Clare he was from, but I know that he was a telegraphist, a postal clerk, an "Irish speaker" at the post office, being a clerk and telegraphist in Co. Down, Co. Antrim, and Co, Derry at various times. He also eventually became a post master as well.

Was the general bilinguist of English and Irish fluent enough in both languages to work in such a position? Would it be a far stretch to assume that he at least completed primary school? Or was being fluent in both something primarily taught within a person's home? Such as by parents?

Hello,
Teaching the Irish language was forbidden in schools until after Independence, so any Irish John knew as a child would have been picked up at home. He might, of course, have taken up the language later in life. The Gaelic league was very popular around the turn of the 20th century and ran Irish classes. John would have been going to school in the 1860s. Primary education was just being established in many Clare areas at that time. If you look at the selection of school registers on the library's website here (bottom left hand corner) http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... nealog.htm most of them date from the 1860s/70s/80s. It might very well depend on where John was living and his home situation. Primary education wasn't compulsory until 1891. There's a handy general article on education in Clare on the library's website here http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... ation2.htm.

sadhbh

Very good information. Thank you very much for the input!

In the 19th century a lot of the schools were fee paying still and not everyone went to school. There were some non fee paying schools but if their curriculum included bible studies the Catholics would not go.
If you look at the 1901 census you will see a lot of people could not read or write. Those who did go to school got a good basic education but when you say "finish school" it would not have been that formal. They may have gone for 4 or 5 years or until their parents felt that they had enough book learning. There are some lovely books on various schools the book published by oac.ie on Scropul school would have been one.

if your relative could read and write then they were comparatively well off possibly from a farm - until free schooling was introduced.

See also http://www.ourlibrary.ca/phpbb2/viewtop ... ilit=brady for an example of a teacher (Master Hugh Brady) who, in the latter half of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century, played a key part in moulding the careers of a large number of Clare children. His school was in Ruan but pupils came from afar to be taught there.

Paddy

Check the London Gazette for John Halpin's appointment. My grandfather had the same occupation and I found him there: The London Gazette of 1 Aug 1902 (p.4976) and the Edinburgh Gazette of 5 Aug 1902 (p.795) reported the appointment on 30 Jul 1902 of John Waldron (Limerick) after limited competition as a Male Learner in the Post Office; his twin brother Patrick had been appointed to a similar position almost six months earlier. See
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/

Pwaldron, your grandfather John Waldron of Limerick is also in a collection on Ancestry called the British Postal Service Appointment books, not sure if you have seen those already but I found my grandfather in there and looked for yours as well